Episode 118 - Jesus: Human

🎄 It's the most wonderful time of the year, and we're back with a brand-new episode! In this special holiday-themed discussion, Jesse, Jen, and Evan tackle some big theological questions (and a whole lot of Christmas banter). From debating the dual nature of Jesus—fully God, fully human—to sharing favorite Christmas cookies and holiday movies, we’ve got all the festive chaos you never knew you needed.

This episode dives deep into the mystery of Jesus' humanity and divinity. Was Jesus really tempted? Could he have sinned? And what does it mean to be fully human in light of his example? Along the way, we explore the challenges of understanding the Trinity, unpack what it means to strive for spiritual wholeness, and remind ourselves why the journey of faith is worth it.

Plus, you'll hear plenty of holiday tangents, including some bold Christmas movie opinions (sorry, It’s a Wonderful Life fans) and a heated debate over Christmas cookies. Grab a drink, your favorite holiday treat, and let’s unwrap the complexities of faith this season.

EPISODE DRINKING NOTES:

Sam Adams – Old Fezziwig Ale
Boston, MA
Winter Warmer Ale | 5.9% ABV

Black Coffee
The MVP of morning theology and late-night podcasting.

Transcript

01;00;06;08 - 01;00;21;18
Jesse
Ho ho ho! Happy Christmas! We're back. We're back, we're back, we're back. January. Build on the thing we're doing. Our intro. She skipped out today. We are quick talking about, Jesus. Jesus and pretty much everything else that's going on.

01;00;21;25 - 01;00;26;16
Evan
Well, Christmas Day to the end to hear us talk about our favorite few of our favorite.

01;00;26;16 - 01;00;28;22
Jesse
Things.

01;00;28;24 - 01;00;30;04
Jesse
That'll have that'll keep them.

01;00;30;04 - 01;00;31;24
Jesse
On for.

01;00;31;26 - 01;00;39;26
Jen
There we have, I would say, more banter than normal at the beginning. And but it is it's fun. We're trying to get more.

01;00;40;10 - 01;01;00;29
Jesse
So, yeah, we're talking about Jesus and, him being human or or not or whatever you want to think about that? We're talking about all that stuff. So grab your beer, grab a Fezziwig. Watch some Christmas carols, smack your neighbor. Here we go again. So if you. Hey, that was.

01;01;01;04 - 01;01;02;16
Jen
Very nice.

01;01;03;02 - 01;01;07;19
Jesse
We're back. We've, we've had weird gaps. Yeah. This whole year.

01;01;07;21 - 01;01;08;29
Jen
Is what it is. Yeah, well.

01;01;08;29 - 01;01;18;07
Jesse
Last time I put. I didn't realize they put out stuff weeks a week ahead. Yeah. And then it got longer, and then we couldn't get to recording. We've had a lot of life things and craziness.

01;01;18;12 - 01;01;19;12
Jesse
Yep.

01;01;19;14 - 01;01;29;14
Jesse
Going on. So it's been a bit it's been a minute. So we have one episode for this month. Sorry guys I know all you subscribers out there are going to be pissed. Yeah, that.

01;01;29;16 - 01;01;30;26
Evan
Yeah. Don't,

01;01;30;28 - 01;01;33;27
Jen
No, don't act like that. Merry Christmas. You get one episode.

01;01;33;28 - 01;01;35;06
Jesse
Closest thing to.

01;01;35;09 - 01;01;42;06
Jesse
Subscribers we have is Chad and Rebecca. Rebecca. It's so you guys. Sorry. Everyone else can go scream.

01;01;42;07 - 01;01;43;13
Jen
Merry Christmas to you, too.

01;01;43;21 - 01;01;45;19
Evan
And I guess Jeff pulsing.

01;01;45;22 - 01;01;48;11
Jen
Oh, yeah. Oh, he really? Yeah. He's really into.

01;01;48;11 - 01;01;54;28
Jesse
It. Yeah. But he's not paying us. Well no. Come on. Yeah, yeah.

01;01;55;00 - 01;01;56;18
Jesse
If you,

01;01;56;20 - 01;01;58;24
Jen
Send us some money, will you come on the show?

01;01;58;25 - 01;01;59;20
Jesse
Do you have a need?

01;02;00;08 - 01;02;08;04
Jesse
We have a bias a beer tab on our website. You can buy, and sponsor the beer for an episode. We'll give you a shout out or or.

01;02;08;04 - 01;02;11;06
Evan
Give us, like, two grand. We can get a bottle of Pappy Van.

01;02;11;06 - 01;02;14;00
Jesse
Winkle or something. That's fine. Oh, you done that?

01;02;14;15 - 01;02;17;26
Jen
I feel like I would end up disappointed if I got to try that for sure.

01;02;18;00 - 01;02;19;11
Jesse
Yeah, I mean, more so that.

01;02;19;13 - 01;02;20;15
Jesse
Well, because.

01;02;20;15 - 01;02;21;22
Jen
The bourbon out there.

01;02;21;24 - 01;02;30;28
Evan
Like, it's. I know people have had it. It's really good. But the problem is, is it in reality, it's a $100 bottle of whiskey. Yeah.

01;02;30;29 - 01;02;34;04
Jen
Yeah. So there's just yeah, there's a scarcity thing.

01;02;34;04 - 01;02;43;23
Evan
Yeah. It's a scarcity thing. So it's like in Ohio you can get a bottle of Pappy's because it's a controlled state for like 60 bucks. Because.

01;02;43;27 - 01;02;45;00
Jen
I have to go to Ohio.

01;02;45;00 - 01;02;47;22
Evan
Yeah, because Ohio controls the liquor prices.

01;02;47;25 - 01;02;48;17
Jesse
Interesting.

01;02;48;25 - 01;02;59;08
Evan
Where. But what happens is. So people will buy go to Ohio or Kentucky or something, buy a case of it. Come bring it to Illinois and sell it for $2,000 a bottle.

01;02;59;10 - 01;03;00;28
Jen
Because people buy it because they're done.

01;03;01;00 - 01;03;03;21
Jesse
That's what we used to do with the, the New Glarus.

01;03;03;21 - 01;03;04;04
Jesse
Yeah.

01;03;04;06 - 01;03;07;02
Jesse
I border and not 2000, but, you know.

01;03;07;04 - 01;03;09;13
Jen
Make an extra five six.

01;03;09;13 - 01;03;09;29
Jesse
Pack like.

01;03;09;29 - 01;03;19;05
Evan
We bought. Well, when we were in Ohio last month, we bought probably 30 bottles of Weller Green label. Because they're selling them for $20.

01;03;19;06 - 01;03;20;03
Jen
Holy moly.

01;03;20;03 - 01;03;21;29
Jesse
Yeah. Jeez. That's 20.

01;03;21;29 - 01;03;23;02
Evan
Dollars. $20.

01;03;23;02 - 01;03;23;22
Jesse
That's insane.

01;03;23;22 - 01;03;25;25
Jen
Yeah. And you didn't bring us ten.

01;03;25;28 - 01;03;30;03
Jesse
I thought I had no.

01;03;30;06 - 01;03;30;26
Jesse
No. What was the.

01;03;30;29 - 01;03;39;29
Jesse
That's one of the few. The Weller Black is what we've had. Yeah. Like that was like $300 a bottle and it was delicious. But I don't think I.

01;03;39;29 - 01;03;40;21
Jen
Would, I watched.

01;03;40;28 - 01;03;45;03
Jesse
I don't think I would spend anywhere above. No like 122.

01;03;45;05 - 01;03;53;17
Jen
We knew what it was. Somebody brought it to a work thing we were at. And one of the guys about made a whiskey and coke basically.

01;03;53;17 - 01;03;54;18
Jesse
I do I.

01;03;54;18 - 01;04;05;09
Jen
Took the bottle out of his hand and I said, no, sir. I said, no, sir. I said, you might listen. You cannot. It's a true story. It did happen. Then we made it. I don't remember if they drink it.

01;04;05;09 - 01;04;07;23
Jesse
He's been drinking better things these days. I think I've seen.

01;04;07;23 - 01;04;12;16
Jen
I said good for you. You could do an Old fashioned with that at most and most.

01;04;12;19 - 01;04;13;16
Jesse
But,

01;04;13;18 - 01;04;19;22
Evan
But you got to do like an old fashioned. Like. Like people do martinis. Yeah. Where you just, like, wave the cork of the.

01;04;19;25 - 01;04;20;03
Jesse
Of.

01;04;20;11 - 01;04;23;01
Evan
What is an absinthe or whatever, like put in there.

01;04;23;04 - 01;04;25;08
Jen
The bitters. You're just like, barely. Yeah.

01;04;25;10 - 01;04;34;21
Jesse
Just blow the essence out. Okay. I'm going to take five seconds to promote two shows I have since this is coming out. And I always think about doing an after the fact.

01;04;34;21 - 01;04;35;23
Jen
Go for it.

01;04;35;26 - 01;04;37;25
Jesse
Peg. Mine's this Friday.

01;04;37;29 - 01;04;39;10
Jen
No. Well, it's on Saturday.

01;04;39;10 - 01;04;40;22
Jesse
But.

01;04;40;24 - 01;04;50;18
Jesse
On the 21st. And then if you're around Galena area, which I'm sure nobody is, but if you're around Galena or Illinois. Yeah. On the 29th, anyway.

01;04;50;21 - 01;04;51;29
Evan
The,

01;04;52;01 - 01;04;54;10
Jesse
Come by, it's. I love the music.

01;04;54;12 - 01;04;57;25
Evan
I do. This is like the for like, Sammy Sam Adams.

01;04;57;27 - 01;04;58;05
Jesse
Going.

01;04;58;05 - 01;05;05;28
Evan
From beer to or from bourbon to beer every once in a while. Basically, the Sam Adams Christmas pack is like, not bad.

01;05;05;29 - 01;05;07;09
Jesse
No, for the most part.

01;05;07;12 - 01;05;10;00
Evan
The Christmas pack is kind of like.

01;05;10;03 - 01;05;14;26
Jen
Yeah, that Fezziwig one's pretty good that you guys have. I love that, by the way. That's what they're drinking.

01;05;14;28 - 01;05;15;05
Jesse
Yeah.

01;05;15;10 - 01;05;16;23
Jen
Old Fezziwig.

01;05;16;23 - 01;05;19;12
Evan
Old Fezziwig from the Chris Christmas.

01;05;19;12 - 01;05;21;14
Jesse
Carol. Right.

01;05;21;16 - 01;05;22;28
Jen
Chances that og.

01;05;23;00 - 01;05;23;15
Jesse
Fezziwig.

01;05;23;17 - 01;05;24;17
Evan
From Christmas Carol is.

01;05;24;17 - 01;05;28;17
Jen
Is it just Jesse? Is it? This is Fezziwig from Christmas Carol.

01;05;28;18 - 01;05;30;17
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.

01;05;30;18 - 01;05;33;27
Jen
Oh, yeah. Like the character. I just don't remember names.

01;05;34;00 - 01;05;34;13
Jesse
Am I the.

01;05;34;19 - 01;05;36;10
Jen
Like the character?

01;05;36;12 - 01;05;36;25
Evan
Like.

01;05;36;27 - 01;05;38;23
Jen
It's just like the character that inspired it.

01;05;38;28 - 01;05;39;08
Jesse
Yeah, yeah.

01;05;39;11 - 01;05;40;21
Evan
Old fuzzy way.

01;05;40;23 - 01;05;42;05
Jesse
Way back. I like,

01;05;42;07 - 01;05;44;07
Jesse
That could have been made just more perfectly.

01;05;44;07 - 01;05;47;17
Jen
Anyway, so Jesse Nevin are drinking that if.

01;05;47;19 - 01;05;48;17
Jesse
I spilled half a.

01;05;48;17 - 01;05;50;17
Jen
Candy, I'm having coffee.

01;05;50;19 - 01;05;51;10
Jesse
All right.

01;05;51;12 - 01;05;53;27
Jen
What are we talking about today?

01;05;55;25 - 01;05;57;12
Jesse
Oh. I just choking on foam.

01;05;58;04 - 01;05;59;02
Evan
It's Christmas.

01;05;59;09 - 01;06;02;23
Jesse
Christmas. Welcome to to the Christmas episode. And you're.

01;06;02;23 - 01;06;03;12
Jen
Still here.

01;06;03;15 - 01;06;04;20
Jesse
After that intro, I'm.

01;06;04;20 - 01;06;07;21
Jesse
Going to chop another one. I think I'll go. I'll compress that.

01;06;07;21 - 01;06;12;23
Jesse
As. And then it's later. It's Christmas.

01;06;12;26 - 01;06;14;23
Jen
And at least.

01;06;14;26 - 01;06;18;26
Jesse
We should have had you play trumpet like you were like collecting for the, Salvation.

01;06;18;26 - 01;06;23;23
Jesse
Army ring bottle. That. Oh, perfect.

01;06;24;26 - 01;06;26;07
Jen
He says he can play trumpet.

01;06;26;18 - 01;06;35;24
Jesse
I think I talked about this, one of the past winter episodes, but I'm generally impressed when we. When someone is playing the trumpet. That is actually decent doing one of those.

01;06;35;26 - 01;06;40;17
Jesse
Like, oh, you're good.

01;06;40;19 - 01;06;42;04
Jen
So being terrible. Yeah.

01;06;42;06 - 01;06;47;14
Jesse
You expected I've seen it once or twice. Not as many times as I'd like to see. Yeah.

01;06;48;08 - 01;06;48;27
Jesse
Yeah.

01;06;48;29 - 01;06;51;05
Jesse
So today.

01;06;51;07 - 01;06;52;10
Jesse
At Christmas.

01;06;52;12 - 01;06;59;27
Jesse
It's Christmas time. This is our one episode for the, December season. And we're going to be talking about Jesus.

01;07;00;02 - 01;07;02;19
Jesse
Jesus Cristo. Yeah.

01;07;02;21 - 01;07;03;09
Evan
Jesus.

01;07;03;11 - 01;07;06;06
Jesse
The guy who knows my law. Yeah.

01;07;06;08 - 01;07;06;22
Jen
Which is.

01;07;06;25 - 01;07;11;08
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, I guess it.

01;07;11;11 - 01;07;17;19
Evan
I kind of model. It's like I should probably go once a season and then a week later it's like, I definitely need to mow the lawn.

01;07;17;21 - 01;07;19;09
Jen
And then a week later, you do it. Yeah.

01;07;19;27 - 01;07;24;26
Jesse
Well, we got a first snow today, so you should be a good friend. Okay. Today we're talking.

01;07;24;28 - 01;07;25;20
Jen
We're not going to get.

01;07;25;20 - 01;07;28;11
Jesse
Jesus, as fully man.

01;07;28;11 - 01;07;38;05
Evan
Well, it it came up Aiden preached about a couple weeks ago a little bit, but it came up really? At the out there last theology pub that we had.

01;07;38;11 - 01;07;38;20
Jesse
Like.

01;07;38;20 - 01;07;39;18
Evan
At Carlisle.

01;07;39;21 - 01;07;40;05
Jesse


01;07;40;26 - 01;07;56;14
Evan
Really talking about the Trinity and, the question, you know, there's so much, so many things about theology. Here's the, here's the pitfall that too many people fall into when talking about these theological ideas is.

01;07;56;17 - 01;07;57;25
Jesse
We.

01;07;57;27 - 01;08;32;19
Evan
We think we should be able to understand everything. Right. And so we don't inherently, especially in the West as post-enlightenment rationalists, we do not like mystery or we don't embrace the mystery, and that there's no greater example of that than in the mystery of the Trinity. And, what is known as Jesus is consubstantial con substantiation, which is, he is he shares the substance of God and the substance of man.

01;08;33;09 - 01;09;01;13
Evan
And so, if you read, pick a creed Nicene apostles, whatever other creeds, the Athanasian, there's the statement that Jesus is full. Like, you will see, Jesus was fully God and fully man. And I think in our understanding of that, we think, oh, okay. So, he's 100% of two things, right? He is flesh and blood.

01;09;01;15 - 01;09;24;17
Evan
All the struggles, broken bones, stuff like that, 100% of man. But he's also 100% God. He has the, the full substance of God within him. Right? That's a confusing thing. But I think people generally are like, okay, let's I kind of get it, you know, I want to argue that we're actually thinking of it improperly when we think of it that way.

01;09;24;17 - 01;09;25;04
Evan
Okay.

01;09;25;07 - 01;09;30;16
Jesse
Do you want to bring up that quote or that question that was asked that started that? I was that.

01;09;30;19 - 01;09;31;10
Evan
Remember the question?

01;09;31;10 - 01;09;41;26
Jesse
Well, it was more so. The reason it came up is that the difficult t of believing it was kind of one of those, can God pick up, so.

01;09;41;27 - 01;09;44;12
Evan
It wasn't it wasn't a question. It was a statement.

01;09;44;12 - 01;09;45;22
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01;09;45;22 - 01;09;49;17
Jen
So it's like if if something then I struggle.

01;09;49;17 - 01;09;56;04
Jesse
If I was fully or if Jesus was fully God, could he have sinned anyway? Was that the question?

01;09;56;08 - 01;09;59;13
Jen
And because of like resist like saying he was he resisted.

01;09;59;21 - 01;10;17;00
Jesse
He was temptation. And that starts that whole rabbit hole of like, you know, well, did he really struggle? Because if he was fully God, he couldn't have sinned anyway, or this or that, you know. But yeah, I think that that's kind of what shaped the conversation that we're kind of talking about today.

01;10;17;01 - 01;10;26;13
Jen
Well, where we ended up that at theology part was if his if you struggle. We're a mess.

01;10;26;15 - 01;10;27;09
Evan
Been was a.

01;10;27;09 - 01;10;29;10
Jesse
Hot mess today.

01;10;29;12 - 01;10;32;02
Evan
Well the last time we recorded was like a month and a half ago.

01;10;32;02 - 01;10;34;10
Jesse
Yeah, it's been a minute.

01;10;34;13 - 01;10;35;23
Jen
The next episode will be better, guys.

01;10;35;24 - 01;10;38;23
Jesse
Yeah, it won't be. Yeah. It was like.

01;10;38;26 - 01;11;00;03
Evan
He struggled with the idea of the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God, then he couldn't. And so what is the temptation mean? So we could talk about that. But then the Trinity came up of how the person who wrote the question was basically, I struggle with the idea, the idea that we opened up with God being 100% of two thing, or Jesus being 100% of two things.

01;11;00;04 - 01;11;00;11
Jesse


01;11;00;14 - 01;11;32;03
Jen
Yeah, yeah. Because it's I mean it is a difficult thing to understand if you. Yeah. So I think the like his question with the temptation part I think is interesting because. It's, it's interesting to me how we as humans can choose like one thing that can be such a struggle for us. Yeah. Like. That basically he's saying like, does the temptation that Satan provide or like not provided him but put in front of Jesus?

01;11;32;03 - 01;11;54;21
Jen
Does it even matter because if he was fully God, could he even sin? Like I think basically saying like, while we look at it, most of us think like, oh, well, he resisted temptation because he's, you know, he is Jesus and he is without sin. And he's saying, well, is sin even an option for him? And that to him was very like faith shaken, that faith shaking.

01;11;54;21 - 01;11;55;11
Jen
But it's like it was a.

01;11;55;11 - 01;11;56;14
Jesse
Big he can't.

01;11;56;14 - 01;11;57;15
Jen
Be. Could it get.

01;11;57;17 - 01;12;01;27
Jesse
Full of man like being human if you can't sin anyway? Yeah, that's kind of what.

01;12;02;03 - 01;12;07;28
Jen
It was, right. And and for him it was a, it's a, it was a big kind of block. Yeah. Spiritually.

01;12;08;01 - 01;12;08;22
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah.

01;12;08;25 - 01;12;10;22
Jen
Theologically I guess more so.

01;12;10;24 - 01;12;22;11
Evan
And I think this opens up a whole other, I hate it. I hate that phrase. It's another whole not a whole other. It's another whole is the proper. Anyhow.

01;12;22;13 - 01;12;25;02
Jen
I know I get it. Okay.

01;12;25;02 - 01;12;27;29
Jesse
Go for it. Yeah. Another whole.

01;12;28;01 - 01;12;29;07
Evan
Brings, another.

01;12;29;07 - 01;12;31;17
Jesse
Whole.

01;12;31;29 - 01;12;39;05
Evan
Rabbit theological rabbit trail. Or at least, that brings up something that,

01;12;39;08 - 01;12;41;12
Jesse
Because, well.

01;12;41;16 - 01;13;08;24
Evan
Let's let's be clear, because for the past thousand years, we've kind of sucked in terms of, like, biblical literacy and understanding the whole narrative from Genesis through revelation and how everything is interconnected. So we look at Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, and Satan or the devil showed up and then tried to get him to sin, right?

01;13;08;24 - 01;13;10;04
Jesse
Like brought some Playboys and.

01;13;10;06 - 01;13;13;05
Evan
Yeah, like, hey, hey, hey, I found these in the woods behind my house.

01;13;13;05 - 01;13;15;22
Jesse
And like.

01;13;15;25 - 01;13;23;21
Evan
Under a log. Which was like. That's a true story. My brothers, they were talking about it like we. That was the first time we ever encountered Playboys was in the woods behind our house.

01;13;23;21 - 01;13;25;24
Jesse
How cliche. Like this.

01;13;25;26 - 01;13;26;28
Jen
You know, like they were.

01;13;27;00 - 01;13;38;00
Evan
No, because we were walking from the baseball fields for a little League game back to our house, like basically through the woods. And it was just they were literally a bag, like a plastic bag under a log.

01;13;38;04 - 01;13;41;17
Jesse
In the middle. We were like, what are these knights?

01;13;41;18 - 01;13;44;03
Jesse
That's when we made the drop and you found it. You're like.

01;13;44;04 - 01;13;45;07
Jesse
Yeah.

01;13;45;10 - 01;13;47;22
Jesse
What do you mean? I left it there by the Log Man.

01;13;47;24 - 01;13;49;02
Jesse
Yeah.

01;13;49;05 - 01;13;52;25
Evan
And of course we were always like,

01;13;52;27 - 01;13;53;20
Jesse
Get behind.

01;13;53;20 - 01;13;56;24
Jesse
Me, Satan. Yeah. All right. So Jesus did not have to. Playboys.

01;13;56;27 - 01;14;25;14
Evan
Yeah, yeah. And so but this brings up, I think, if we are keen observers of biblical narratives, this this doesn't bring up the like like it one it we tend to think that Satan we tend to put all of our sin as the fault of Satan. Right. Rather than owning up to our own nonsense. Right. So that's like a it's a Christian copout.

01;14;25;14 - 01;14;52;28
Evan
The devil made me do it. We've talked I think we've talked about that on the podcast, with the temptation of Jesus. It's actually the word temptation. The actual word means to be put to a test. And so you could almost sense that Satan or thus Satan, that which means the adversary or the prosecutor was, was treating Jesus or doing to Jesus the same thing.

01;14;52;28 - 01;15;16;14
Evan
He would have done the job right to put Jobe to a test, and Jobe test was, well, Jobe, you know, you know, called, curse God essentially. Right. That's the test. Let me see if I can get Jobe to curse God. And God gave him permission to do it. If we were to look at it like that, then we could see.

01;15;16;17 - 01;15;47;28
Evan
Oh, okay. So Satan, now, here is this figure, obviously Satan knows who God is, but here's this human being figure who is claiming to be God in the flesh, the Messiah that that Satan would have had an understanding of what that means, you know, narratively at least, now it's I have to put this let's make sure this guy is who he says he is, kind of a thing, right?

01;15;48;01 - 01;15;56;04
Jen
Like you would think again, at least in the narrative, that Satan would expect him to read Jesus, to resist the temptation like that would be if.

01;15;56;04 - 01;15;58;06
Evan
He is truly God, then this one, the first.

01;15;58;06 - 01;15;59;17
Jen
Of all effect. Yeah, yeah.

01;16;00;06 - 01;16;01;29
Evan
And then we could go about our business.

01;16;01;29 - 01;16;03;25
Jesse
Yeah.

01;16;03;28 - 01;16;26;28
Evan
Because Satan obviously, you know, when I think we have, I have, you know, an overly, weird view of Satan, I believe, I, I, you know, we tend to think of Satan as the pitchfork guy. You know, we we tend to think of them more in terms of Hades instead of, like,

01;16;27;00 - 01;16;29;05
Jesse
Satan or, you know,

01;16;29;07 - 01;16;57;18
Evan
What Satan's actual the word, the name Satan, it's a title, which means, you know, prosecutor kind of a thing. So there is like, the theology surrounding Satan is a little bit different. And difficult to decipher. And so if we look at Jesus being tested or to be proved or reproved as probably think is the right word to be reproved as God in the flesh, then that is what that story is.

01;16;57;18 - 01;17;13;09
Evan
It's not. Let's see, this guy can sin and then look, he's without sin kind of a thing. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that that's a I mean, that's that's literally what it is. But we tend to look at it's like, okay, Jesus didn't sin when he was by himself.

01;17;13;09 - 01;17;16;06
Jen
And so therefore I should not do that. Yeah.

01;17;16;06 - 01;17;36;00
Evan
Yeah, yeah. Now do I believe Jesus was lived a sinless life? Of course I do. I mean, if if if I believe that he is fully God, sin by definition is the absence of God. So, yes, it is quite literally impossible for him to sin.

01;17;36;03 - 01;17;44;14
Jen
And then from that, so you have basically that conversation at the LG pad. Yeah. And then we kind of it tiptoed its way into Trinity.

01;17;44;14 - 01;17;45;12
Evan
Trinity talk.

01;17;45;16 - 01;17;53;03
Jen
Which is I mean, I grew up very aware of Trinity itself and with being Catholic was your.

01;17;53;05 - 01;17;55;15
Evan
Go to call gentle reflecting or whatever.

01;17;55;17 - 01;17;55;21
Jen
The.

01;17;55;24 - 01;17;57;01
Evan
Genuflection, you.

01;17;57;04 - 01;17;58;29
Jen
Know, that's like that's like kneeling.

01;17;58;29 - 01;17;59;19
Evan
Oh, is that kneeling?

01;17;59;26 - 01;18;01;18
Jen
Just sign of the cross.

01;18;01;20 - 01;18;05;16
Evan
Just as well as in watch.

01;18;05;18 - 01;18;06;23
Jesse
Yep.

01;18;06;25 - 01;18;07;15
Jen
Never heard that.

01;18;07;15 - 01;18;09;00
Jesse
Actually he said it on.

01;18;09;00 - 01;18;09;15
Jesse
Here several.

01;18;09;15 - 01;18;19;16
Jen
Times, has he? Yeah. I must just zoom out. Easy to do. Anyway, so we we have we done one on the Trinity I think.

01;18;19;16 - 01;18;20;23
Jesse
Yeah, I think so.

01;18;20;25 - 01;18;23;15
Jen
We've been doing this for too long. I don't know anymore, but,

01;18;23;17 - 01;18;24;03
Evan
Almost.

01;18;24;06 - 01;18;28;21
Jesse
I don't know. Again, like many of these, I don't know if it was on the Trinity, but we've definitely brushed the topic. So.

01;18;28;22 - 01;18;29;10
Evan
Yeah.

01;18;29;12 - 01;18;52;22
Jen
But anyway, I, we have talked about it, but and I don't remember because we did eventually end up I'm just mostly trying to remember the trajectory of that conversation, like how we got from his question to Trinity to fully godly man, because we did kind of, yeah, do the whole gamut. But, I think the Trinity can be equally difficult for people to understand.

01;18;54;03 - 01;18;58;22
Jen
And it is a weird it is kind of weird. Yeah. The longer you think about it.

01;18;58;22 - 01;18;59;25
Jesse
Yeah.

01;19;00;15 - 01;19;04;20
Jen
But I don't remember how we got from that to the rest of this conversation.

01;19;04;21 - 01;19;36;13
Evan
Yeah I think. Yeah. So when you think about the Trinity, I mean, it's one God, three persons, not three individuals. Right? So persons, some in more Pentecostal denominations will see this as manifestations of God. That's improper. That's that's that's incomplete language in and of itself. In any sort of allegory that is helpful to I'm try and understand, like water or H2O.

01;19;36;16 - 01;19;55;01
Evan
Yeah. Is a liquid, a gas and solid all of it is the same substance. They're just different states. Even. That puts a temporal onus on God. And you can't put, like the temporal on something that is un temporal. I don't know what the infinite.

01;19;55;03 - 01;19;56;29
Jesse
Yeah. Right.

01;19;57;13 - 01;20;26;08
Evan
But those things do help, help us in our, in our, finite minds, at least rapidly. Okay. I, I kind of get the gist. I want I, I fully embrace I'm never going to be able to understand this. But when it comes to fully man how we think of it as 100% God, 100% man, even though that is the way that the creeds and, the creeds read it.

01;20;26;08 - 01;20;40;20
Evan
And I think, is it the book? Is it John chapter one, you know, you know, as Isaiah, John talks about it, Paul talks about it in Romans five, first Corinthians, I think three, maybe four, four. So 12, one of those.

01;20;40;22 - 01;20;41;20
Jen
Three, four, 12.

01;20;43;12 - 01;21;11;19
Evan
That that Jesus is fully man or this idea of the new Adam. And so that elevates the notion of the, the true Adam or the new Adam should elevate how we think the phrase fully God, fully man, or should elevate what we think about that phrase rather than, 200% equals 100%. We should look at it is no, no.

01;21;11;19 - 01;21;36;21
Evan
Actually, Jesus being fully man means that Jesus is actually the full representation of what man mankind, human beings, are supposed to be so fully man is he is the truly the only for human. And the rest of us are like half human because we are not living in, in our true purpose of connection, in unity with our creator.

01;21;36;25 - 01;21;38;18
Evan
Whereas Jesus was.

01;21;38;20 - 01;21;55;04
Jen
And then what do we but what do we do with that? Right. Like, yeah, yeah, what do we I mean, that's what I always ask us is like when we have these conversations, like, what do we do with it? How does that inform our faith? What do we for some people, if that kind of shakes something up for them?

01;21;55;07 - 01;21;56;17
Jen


01;21;56;19 - 01;21;57;00
Evan
Yeah.

01;21;57;04 - 01;22;08;20
Jen
Like, where do you go from there? How do you. Maybe it's because then we think as humans, like we need to meet some, like, unattainable level of, like, perfection.

01;22;08;20 - 01;22;09;15
Evan
Yeah.

01;22;10;13 - 01;22;23;18
Jen
Which I don't necessarily think is the case. Obviously, we need to, like, live our lives as best as we can, but we can never. We can't ever be it. You're basically, we're saying, like we would never be able to be fully man essentially.

01;22;23;20 - 01;22;48;17
Evan
In this life. I think the renewal of all things as described in revelation 22, new Heavens and a new Earth, we like the idea of rapture that is found in first Thessalonians. We tend to think of it as like like left behind rapture, right? Yeah. You're getting caught up, and then the airplanes all fall at the sky or whatever.

01;22;50;18 - 01;23;03;11
Evan
You get caught up in the heavens. The promise, the promise of of eternal life is not you go to heaven, it's you get to dwell fully within God in a renewed creation.

01;23;03;17 - 01;23;04;09
Jesse


01;23;04;11 - 01;23;29;15
Evan
Right. That's that's the promise of Jesus. It's the promise of revelation. I saw a city descend like a cloud from the clouds and then. And a new Jerusalem was established. There were new heavens and new earth, type of a thing. And so the idea of rapture is not getting caught up into heaven. It's actually being filled fully, as fully human.

01;23;29;18 - 01;23;32;15
Jen
That would be crazy.

01;23;32;17 - 01;23;32;29
Jesse
Not to.

01;23;32;29 - 01;23;43;10
Jen
See. No. Like, it's I know, it's just so much more interesting, right. Like, because we don't everyone's like the rapture seems very scary. Obviously I.

01;23;43;10 - 01;23;44;13
Jesse
Kind of like I.

01;23;44;17 - 01;23;48;14
Evan
There's a huge, like an alternate universe where I wish like Left Behind was true.

01;23;49;15 - 01;23;50;17
Jen
Everything just, like, poofs.

01;23;50;17 - 01;23;51;17
Evan
Away and I'm in.

01;23;51;17 - 01;23;53;07
Jen
Our clothes are folded in a pile.

01;23;53;07 - 01;23;57;11
Evan
And I'm Buck Williams or whatever, whatever his name is, who's left behind.

01;23;57;14 - 01;24;05;02
Jen
Like he stays. He doesn't get taken. I've genuinely never seen those movies or read the books from a fine.

01;24;05;26 - 01;24;09;22
Evan
Yeah. So Buck Williams, I think his name is Buck. Kirk Cameron.

01;24;10;27 - 01;24;12;03
Jesse
Is.

01;24;12;05 - 01;24;37;21
Evan
Plays. I think his name is Buck Williams. He's like a CNN journalist who witnesses like Israel being bombed by all of Israel's neighbors. Okay. And then the signals like, the end times will. And then there's, like, the two witnesses standing at the wailing Wall, like, who are those two old guys standing at the Wailing Wall? And then the rapture happens.

01;24;37;21 - 01;24;45;01
Evan
And of course, planes follow the sky. And Buck, who's not a Christian, eventually becomes a Christian. But it's then it's him.

01;24;45;04 - 01;24;46;18
Jen
You really remember the story line?

01;24;46;18 - 01;24;57;17
Evan
I'm impressed. It's him. And then a pastor who was also left behind because he wasn't actually a Christian. And then, like a group of other people, create the Tribulation force.

01;24;57;19 - 01;25;00;17
Jen
It's necessary when there's no one else left.

01;25;00;19 - 01;25;02;10
Evan
Well, there's no Christians, so they have to.

01;25;02;12 - 01;25;03;03
Jesse
We have all.

01;25;03;03 - 01;25;03;29
Jen
I.

01;25;04;01 - 01;25;04;12
Jesse
Mean, there's.

01;25;04;12 - 01;25;09;13
Evan
So there's seven years of tribulation or the Antichrist reigns.

01;25;09;16 - 01;25;12;25
Jen
And I genuinely never seen it or read it or.

01;25;12;29 - 01;25;14;06
Jesse
Yeah, just watch.

01;25;14;06 - 01;25;18;11
Jesse
This is what I grew up in. I know this is nasty in my head.

01;25;18;11 - 01;25;23;04
Evan
Yeah. And so, you know, essentially they they end up saving it and.

01;25;23;06 - 01;25;23;20
Jesse
Wow.

01;25;23;25 - 01;25;25;02
Evan
They're saving a bunch of people.

01;25;25;02 - 01;25;29;04
Jesse
Oddly enough, I don't think I ever watched them, but that was everything that I grew up.

01;25;29;11 - 01;25;31;18
Evan
Oh, the movies are hilariously bad.

01;25;31;19 - 01;25;37;27
Jesse
But the Williams alone is like the most white Christian male name sounds down south.

01;25;38;02 - 01;25;38;19
Evan
Yeah.

01;25;38;21 - 01;25;39;06
Jesse
But.

01;25;39;08 - 01;25;40;02
Evan


01;25;40;04 - 01;25;41;00
Jesse
But

01;25;41;02 - 01;25;45;05
Jen
Sorry. Tangent. Anyhow, that so, so much.

01;25;45;07 - 01;26;16;25
Evan
That strain of of eschatology, the end of the world, the left behind is what's known as comes from dispensationalism, which is your John MacArthur. Your it's a mid 19th century theological perspective. Founded it, I think in the United States. That holds no that holds nothing in common with traditional Christian orthodoxy. So it's quite literally heresy. But it it has devoured a huge swaths.

01;26;16;27 - 01;26;18;19
Jesse
Smart swaths of.

01;26;19;02 - 01;26;21;21
Evan
Of the American religiosity.

01;26;21;22 - 01;26;37;00
Jesse
I mean, yeah, yeah. Well, I think I think that's the weird thing to think through is like, being fully human is to be fully connected with God, because that's absolutely the opposite. Everyone ever learns to is human, right? That's.

01;26;37;06 - 01;26;44;22
Evan
Yeah. Alex Alexander for, to is human. Yeah.

01;26;44;24 - 01;26;46;16
Jen
On like the quote you're trying to remember who.

01;26;46;16 - 01;26;47;17
Jesse
Said to obey.

01;26;47;19 - 01;26;52;14
Jesse
Alexander. Oh the Pope Alexander Pope. Dyslexia.

01;26;52;14 - 01;26;52;20
Evan
Yeah.

01;26;52;20 - 01;26;54;28
Jesse
Those are, Pope Alexander.

01;26;54;28 - 01;26;57;16
Evan
I was like, I don't think there was a problem.

01;26;57;18 - 01;26;58;14
Jesse
He's a very Greek.

01;26;58;14 - 01;27;00;19
Evan
Name, this very Greek name for Romans.

01;27;00;19 - 01;27;19;02
Jesse
Rip that one out of my ass. But, yeah, yeah, John, I said that, but, but that's what we're all taught. Like, being human is to be flawed. Yeah. You know, so, like, it's a very different perspective to say no. To be human is to be fully connected to God.

01;27;19;09 - 01;27;21;28
Evan
Yeah. I mean.

01;27;22;01 - 01;27;29;00
Jesse
Which leads to a bunch of other questions is how do we like what I. Yeah, is the goal to be perfect?

01;27;29;01 - 01;27;42;14
Jen
Well, I mean, in, in theory that option was taken away at during the fall. Yeah. Yeah. And then we were given an example of like, this is what being fully human or fully man could look like with Jesus.

01;27;42;21 - 01;27;43;14
Evan
Yeah.

01;27;43;16 - 01;27;50;05
Jen
But it was still not something because of the fall that we were, we would be able to attain for now. Yeah. Essentially.

01;27;50;07 - 01;28;09;15
Evan
Yeah. And so like you go to like so human beings were not created in error. Right. Genesis 126 Then God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness. They were rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky and the livestock, the whole earth and the creatures that crawl under. So God created man.

01;28;09;15 - 01;28;24;12
Evan
So an image. He created them in the image of God. He created the male and female. God bless them and said to them, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and every creature that crawls in the earth. He also said, look, I've given you every seed bearing plant to eat.

01;28;24;14 - 01;28;42;21
Evan
Now this will be food for you, for all the wildlife of the earth, for every bird of the sky, and for every creature that crawls in the earth, everything having the breath of life in it. I have given evergreen plant for food. And it was so. God saw that all that he had created and said it was very good indeed.

01;28;42;23 - 01;29;10;26
Evan
So there was a there's a goodness to the intention of human beings. The intention of human beings was to steward, to steward the creation and to live in community with God and for shalom, for peace and reconciliation. But then you go to Romans five, where Paul talks. He says, so. So then as the one trespass, there is condemnation, as through one trespass, Adam and Eve, there is condemnation for every one.

01;29;10;26 - 01;29;15;24
Evan
So also through one righteous act there will be justification leading to life for everyone. The death of Jesus.

01;29;15;25 - 01;29;16;16
Jen


01;29;18;00 - 01;29;32;02
Evan
And so you kind of see the trespass at the action of the human brought condemnation to all humanity, kind of ripped out half of our humanity. The action of Christ gives us a pathway into fullness again.

01;29;32;04 - 01;29;32;23
Jen


01;29;32;25 - 01;29;50;15
Evan
What would be called shalom. Shalom means wholeness means we, we translate as peace, but actually is closer related to wholeness, to be whole again. So not wandering, not trying to fill that hole with something else like holy, but becoming holy.

01;29;50;17 - 01;30;04;01
Jesse
Yeah. Whole. Yeah. Well, yeah, the whole whole. Yeah, yeah. The it's.

01;30;04;01 - 01;30;06;12
Evan
Dumb and dumber.

01;30;06;14 - 01;30;10;04
Jesse
To. Whatever. You're done. And.

01;30;10;05 - 01;30;25;27
Evan
Yeah. So that's kind of so I think. Yes. Human beings as we currently exist within our own selves, are sinful. The intention is not to be sinful. The intention of God is to create us, not to be sinful.

01;30;27;08 - 01;30;28;20
Jesse
But we are.

01;30;28;23 - 01;30;33;13
Jen
And we are inherently like, yeah, really, despite anything we can do.

01;30;33;14 - 01;30;34;03
Evan
Yeah.

01;30;34;05 - 01;30;37;26
Jen
Not that that means we shouldn't try to live. Yeah.

01;30;37;26 - 01;31;01;09
Evan
And that's the nature of freewill right. Like free will, free will for God. I would assume if we, if we were to plan something like if we were to plan like God plans or whatever, like the dilemma is, do I allow them to have free will? Because on the good side, they can choose to love me in return, rather than be robots.

01;31;01;16 - 01;31;18;25
Evan
But on the bad side, they can choose to reject me. So that's kind of the dilemma that God had to create. That you would assume that God went in and I think that shows the benevolence of God and that to allow us the, the ability to choose him or reject him.

01;31;20;24 - 01;31;28;28
Jen
Yeah. That we're allowed to just live a life separate from him if we would like to. Yeah. Or at least might we feel is separate.

01;31;28;28 - 01;31;30;23
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah.

01;31;30;26 - 01;31;50;11
Evan
And so being fully man is that reconnection that we get through the power of the Holy Spirit through the transforming of our lives through, you know, was it second Corinthians five. The old is gone, the new has come kind of a thing. And we have we have been crucified with Christ and raised again with Christ.

01;31;50;12 - 01;32;29;08
Jen
Yeah, I get how for some people that that is all very, it changes a lot of how they think. But in a lot of ways it seems so much simpler. Right? Yeah. It doesn't have to be. Like, it changes how you view things, but like, it is easier. It's somewhat like you understand more who we are, like why we're here and why like, like free will and our ability to then choose God and choose to someday be with him and fully man at that point.

01;32;29;08 - 01;32;34;25
Jen
Like that's actually. But I mean, it's kind of comforting when you think of it that way as opposed to like a.

01;32;34;27 - 01;32;35;16
Jesse


01;32;35;18 - 01;32;37;13
Jen
We're constantly falling short and.

01;32;37;14 - 01;32;38;05
Jesse
Yeah.

01;32;38;07 - 01;32;41;06
Jen
We're just a bunch of sinners and. Yeah.

01;32;41;08 - 01;32;56;19
Evan
And I think you know because I've done a, when I was in Ohio, I had a couple days by myself. So I did a bunch of writing on because I, you know, the theology pub topic, I my brain thinking. So I just did a, I wasn't preaching so I.

01;32;56;21 - 01;32;57;29
Jesse
I wrote a sermon anyway.

01;32;57;29 - 01;33;10;17
Evan
Yeah. So I wrote basically like I was like, oh, I could turn this into a book. So I wrote like an abstract for a book, basically. Which is like the overview possible that you send to see if someone, you know, generates interest.

01;33;10;18 - 01;33;11;18
Jesse
She knows about that.

01;33;11;21 - 01;33;13;05
Jesse
Yeah.

01;33;13;08 - 01;33;13;24
Jen
I've never heard that.

01;33;13;24 - 01;33;15;03
Jesse
But what does that mean?

01;33;15;05 - 01;33;40;22
Evan
And for me, it brought okay. So it brings a little bit more of a clarity into the person of Jesus, but more so I think it using this idea of fully human as an example, could help us actually elevate how we read and understand Scripture less from a I got to get the answers right in the test, which is kind of how we tend to read scripture anyway.

01;33;40;22 - 01;34;03;15
Evan
Like what does the Bible say in Jude verse 20? You know, like we, we want answers to a test. We read a very in a, in a very academic way. But I think scriptures, the point of Scripture is not to give us detailed history or detailed science or detail things. It's actually to elevate our minds into understanding more about who God is.

01;34;03;20 - 01;34;06;27
Evan


01;34;06;29 - 01;34;26;22
Evan
And so I think that once you start to realize it's trying to do that, you can begin to elevate your view. And once you and once your view begins to be elevated of Scripture as you read it, it actually does become simpler. Yeah. Because you're looking at it through a lens of I'm just trying to understand God by reading judges for.

01;34;26;26 - 01;34;46;01
Jen
Yeah, and you're not overwhelmed by like, every rule and yeah, like little tiny thing that's in there. And there's just so many things in the Bible. There's wild. Yeah. That that makes it easier to try and understand instead. Like, what is it teaching me instead of like, dissecting every single like weird story?

01;34;46;01 - 01;35;07;18
Evan
Yeah. And there's so much, especially the Old Testament people are like the Old Testament so hard. There's so much like nonsense, like weird and borderline evil stuff in there. It's like, well, yeah, that's because there is there is a juxtaposition taking place in all of the narratives. There's the human thing, which is like war, famine, bag of foreskins, like whatever it is.

01;35;07;21 - 01;35;14;21
Evan
And then there is God on the other side. So you see the kind of how those two are like, what is the chasm between the two?

01;35;14;22 - 01;35;15;07
Jesse


01;35;15;09 - 01;35;18;05
Evan
God and man. And then man blames everything on.

01;35;18;05 - 01;35;22;28
Jen
God and man messing it up over and over again. And God saying, okay, try it, let's try it again.

01;35;22;28 - 01;35;24;15
Jesse
Try it again. All right.

01;35;24;18 - 01;35;27;12
Evan
If you. Yeah. Okay. If you want a king I mean.

01;35;27;15 - 01;35;28;25
Jesse
Yeah yeah yeah.

01;35;28;27 - 01;35;30;13
Jesse
Okay. Yeah.

01;35;30;16 - 01;35;31;06
Evan
Yeah. Tried to tell.

01;35;31;06 - 01;35;33;12
Jesse
You.

01;35;33;14 - 01;35;33;27
Jen
You just don't.

01;35;33;27 - 01;35;35;18
Jesse
Listen.

01;35;35;27 - 01;35;57;26
Evan
So yeah. So I think it does. But in this brings up a great understanding. So what, what was Jesus I guess the question would be what did Jesus like humanity. Look like. If we were to look at the life of Jesus from a human perspective, what was that life? What did that look like and how would that change?

01;35;57;26 - 01;36;16;16
Evan
How how does that actually change how we live to strive after Jesus for humanity? You have, like Jesus, loved unconditionally. It didn't matter who if you were a Pharisee. We again, that's another thing we got to like be better at is we look at Pharisees as big, bad.

01;36;16;18 - 01;36;17;19
Jen
Like a bad word almost.

01;36;17;19 - 01;36;37;21
Evan
Yeah. Like, oh, don't be a Pharisee. It's like, well, you know, one that in all likelihood, Jesus was probably a Pharisee because it was a sect of Judaism. It's not like it was like a group of conniving, evil men who were it was a sect of Judaism. And Jesus only talked to Pharisees, which means that, like, there's a connection there.

01;36;37;21 - 01;37;00;26
Evan
So there's a shared probably tradition, at the very least. And so Jesus was probably a Pharisee. And also when the Pharisees quote unquote, test Jesus or question Jesus, that's not like out of disrespect or hate or spite. It's just what they did. It's like that. That was how they understood what like different beliefs and grew basically this.

01;37;00;29 - 01;37;03;18
Jesse
Yeah, I was talking through. Yeah. Ideas.

01;37;03;18 - 01;37;15;20
Evan
Yeah. So they're like, oh they tested Jesus in this way. It's like that's how we think of it. It's like no, like they were just having a conversation. It was a normal conversation. Any teacher that is drawing a crowd would have had the same.

01;37;15;24 - 01;37;34;19
Jen
Well, and you're you figure he's bringing in language and theology that they've never. Yeah. They well not necessarily never heard. But like he's literally saying I am wedding to you. I am who you've been waiting for. And they're like, okay. Yeah. And then they're like, but also Jesus is saying like, but also you're messing up all of the things like you're not getting it.

01;37;34;24 - 01;37;38;06
Jen
And like, of course they're going to have to have dialog. Yeah. That they would have to.

01;37;38;10 - 01;37;51;04
Evan
Yeah. Like I feel like if Jesus came now, one I think all of us would think he's a douche, right? Because he'd be like, that guy's so happy. Yeah. There's he's smile for.

01;37;51;05 - 01;37;52;00
Jesse
Like like like.

01;37;52;05 - 01;37;52;22
Jen
Especially I.

01;37;52;22 - 01;37;54;06
Jesse
Mean, yeah, yeah.

01;37;54;08 - 01;38;18;18
Evan
It's, like we would look at him as like, oh, here comes this dude doing his weird things, you know? So it's like, completely understandable. But what does he mean? He loved unconditionally. He loved all people. And love does not mean only the positive emotions, right? Like you love a child that you discipline, right? And stuff like that.

01;38;18;18 - 01;38;28;12
Evan
So loved unconditionally. He was very gracious. The host's very gracious to everybody around him at all times. I mean, he was.

01;38;28;12 - 01;38;29;13
Jesse
Brutal.

01;38;29;15 - 01;38;44;14
Evan
Like that. He was brutally honest. He was also brutal when it came to obviously fashioning a weapon, driving out, you know, people who thought they were just helping out, essentially.

01;38;44;16 - 01;38;45;22
Jesse
How I ended up here, I was.

01;38;45;22 - 01;38;52;18
Jesse
Like, dude, I just try it out. Yeah, dude, they didn't ever go to sell him a goat.

01;38;52;27 - 01;39;19;05
Evan
He was obviously righteous. Perfectly righteous. He silenced critics just with his very demeanor. Right. Just the way he carried himself, the way he, interacted with people. You can almost sense that. Especially when, say, Pharisees or rabbis or scribes are questioning him just the way he carries himself. They're like, okay, like I can't really do anything about that.

01;39;20;06 - 01;39;36;01
Evan
He also was emotional. He's moved to tears during the, the, Lazarus ordeal. He was just like, perfectly just not like, American. Just.

01;39;36;03 - 01;39;36;22
Jesse
You know.

01;39;37;02 - 01;39;58;15
Evan
Like, truly, he was a just person. He he his justice was true for divine justice. You know, you see this with the woman at the well, the woman in adultery, how he treated Zacchaeus. Right. And in our version of justice, we would have pulled Zacchaeus out and killed him for what he was doing, essentially. And that's what they all wanted to do.

01;39;58;17 - 01;40;17;26
Evan
But he didn't do that. His justice was one of grace and mercy, as well as his justice again, against like Peter, like Peter's like you're the Messiah, the son of the living God, Jesus, on this rock I will build my church. And then, like three senses later, he calls Peter Satan.

01;40;17;28 - 01;40;18;18
Jesse
Right?

01;40;18;21 - 01;40;40;20
Evan
So there's honesty. And then he was like, quite literally just like perfect. I mean, he was he there was nothing. Yeah. He showed no favoritism. Even the people that we would consider his favorites, Peter, James and John, they were always like he was harping on them. He called John a son of thunder. Like, knock it off with the temper, Peter.

01;40;40;22 - 01;40;47;02
Evan
Yeah, you just you there's zero filter between brain and mouth. Peter. Like, just at some point, stop talking.

01;40;47;05 - 01;40;48;15
Jesse
You know?

01;40;48;17 - 01;41;11;23
Evan
And then James was just James. And so you have some of those attributes. You also have the fruit of the spirit. He was a loving. He was joyful. He was, peaceful. He was patient. He was kind, he was gentle. He had of that, or he was surrounded by you. Imagine, like the women that would have been like, like back in the day.

01;41;11;23 - 01;41;14;22
Evan
Like if he had a pick of the litter, I guess, like, you.

01;41;14;23 - 01;41;16;23
Jesse
Know.

01;41;16;25 - 01;41;21;02
Evan
Probably, but he had insane self-control.

01;41;22;21 - 01;41;23;29
Jesse
In those carpenter abs.

01;41;24;04 - 01;41;27;05
Evan
Yeah, he had those carpenters that those sweet biceps.

01;41;27;07 - 01;41;28;00
Jen
Okay, gentlemen.

01;41;28;07 - 01;41;28;11
Jesse
Let's.

01;41;28;11 - 01;41;28;25
Jen
Get out.

01;41;29;02 - 01;41;33;28
Evan
Of this with that long, flowing blond hair.

01;41;34;00 - 01;41;35;25
Jesse
Doves landing on him constantly.

01;41;35;26 - 01;41;42;19
Evan
Yeah, he was a good seven inches taller than everybody.

01;41;42;22 - 01;41;43;24
Jesse


01;41;43;26 - 01;41;47;08
Jesse
He had risers in his sandals. Yeah.

01;41;47;10 - 01;41;48;01
Jen
Lifts.

01;41;48;04 - 01;41;50;04
Jesse
Yeah, whatever.

01;41;50;18 - 01;41;51;07
Evan
Like.

01;41;51;09 - 01;41;54;02
Jesse
Okay. We're downhill. I know I talked.

01;41;54;02 - 01;41;55;00
Jen
About how good looking he.

01;41;55;00 - 01;41;56;13
Jesse
Was. Yeah.

01;41;57;12 - 01;42;30;21
Evan
Right. And so. But so he had all of those attributes, his attributes, that we've read in Scripture that are trying to compel us into living good lives and being good humans, like Jesus possessed all of those. And, the, the so the fruit of the spirit, the gifts of the spirit are quite literally just like the personality of who Jesus is, like the actions of Jesus or the gifts of the Holy Spirit, are Ephesians four when it says, Jesus gave to the church the apostles and prophets of.

01;42;30;23 - 01;42;31;01
Jesse
The.

01;42;31;01 - 01;42;56;10
Evan
Evangelists, the shepherds and the teachers. That is they. Jesus gave to the church himself. He was apostolic. He was on the move constantly. He was prophetic. He was speaking the truth of God. He was pastoral. He was caring and loving. He was teaching, and he was a teacher. And he taught, missing one, an evangelist. And he spread the king his his whole purpose was to spread the message of the kingdom of God.

01;42;56;10 - 01;43;15;01
Evan
So all of that is who Jesus is. And so that's another way that we can look at when we are reading, especially the New Testament and Isaiah and Jeremiah, bits of Jeremiah, we can say, oh, this is actually just showing me who Jesus, all of it is showing me who Jesus is.

01;43;15;05 - 01;43;16;01
Jesse


01;43;16;04 - 01;43;37;13
Evan
All of it's showing, you know, when Paul to the Corinthians says, you know, beat your one body like knock it off with this leader, that leader, this leader, that leader, knock it off with the divide. Like just be one because Jesus is one. You know, that's we are called to be like Jesus Christian or Jesus like, or Jesus adjacent.

01;43;37;15 - 01;43;43;06
Evan
Kind of like. Yeah, just like American or Chinese or whatever. You're of China. You're of America.

01;43;43;08 - 01;44;08;27
Jen
Yeah. I think it's I mean, I think this whole conversation is just a good way to reevaluate how you especially how you see Jesus, how you see the stories that are in the Bible. I think it's very interesting to, like, change that narrative a little bit of like. How? Yeah, what how it reflects us as humans as well.

01;44;08;28 - 01;44;27;22
Jen
Like it kind of changes. Yeah. That what our goal is. Right. Like it's not something that we won't be able to attain for a while here. But it doesn't take away what that we should strive towards. Yeah. Being like Jesus now. Yeah. It's just that there's going to be a threshold.

01;44;27;25 - 01;44;28;15
Evan
Yeah, yeah.

01;44;28;19 - 01;44;33;18
Jen
It's impossible for us to be fully human. Essentially. Yeah.

01;44;33;20 - 01;44;52;09
Jesse
Interesting. Well, yeah, I mean, that fulfillment that kind of came I mean, that was another question that popped up very separately, but in theology. But it's the idea of like certain things are unattainable, so why bother? I think the question was like about, are we called to be like, to keep the planet clean or some bowl, like that?

01;44;52;09 - 01;45;09;02
Jesse
Yeah. Well, I mean, I was like, yeah, I mean, very much like this. Sorry that my whole circle back, the whole thought is, again, like, it seems overwhelming and and to a point where like, well, I'm not going to make a difference, so why bother anyway? Yeah. And that's where it kind of comes down to, well, I'm not going to be Jesus, so why bother anyway.

01;45;09;02 - 01;45;18;18
Jesse
Yeah. The calling should be the. Is that you still try. Yeah. You still do your best to do those things. You're not you're not going to do it. You fail. You're going to fail. But you should be trying.

01;45;18;18 - 01;45;24;16
Evan
Yeah. And to desire spiritual transformation. Yeah. To constantly, you know, get.

01;45;24;21 - 01;45;25;12
Jesse
Away from stuff.

01;45;25;14 - 01;45;43;03
Evan
Yeah. We should be you know, this is why I love John Wesley's idea of sanctification, because it's it's about this lifelong progress towards God rather than a decision you make. And you're good to go. Yeah. You know, now go leave bad tips after church.

01;45;43;05 - 01;45;44;13
Jesse
Yeah.

01;45;44;16 - 01;45;46;07
Jesse
I was in John. John six. Yeah.

01;45;46;07 - 01;45;47;07
Evan
John six one.

01;45;47;09 - 01;45;49;24
Jen
After. Now shalt not tip thy server.

01;45;49;24 - 01;45;50;20
Jesse
Well yeah.

01;45;50;20 - 01;45;55;01
Evan
After Sunday gatherings.

01;45;55;11 - 01;45;58;17
Jesse
Please send the food back. Not once.

01;45;58;24 - 01;46;00;21
Evan
Not twice, but thrice.

01;46;00;24 - 01;46;04;19
Jen
Please show up with a group of 25 without calling ahead. Yeah, that would be great.

01;46;04;19 - 01;46;12;21
Evan
And then complain that they automatically put the gratuity on the thing.

01;46;12;23 - 01;46;16;18
Jen
I get stressed if there's more than, like, ten of us trying to go to lunch together. I'm like, oh, here we go.

01;46;16;19 - 01;46;22;17
Evan
Yeah, please let the pasta. Except for Starbucks. You should hear those guys suck.

01;46;22;20 - 01;46;24;24
Jen
They're still just humans trying to do their job.

01;46;25;02 - 01;46;27;22
Evan
Yeah, they're like they're full, depraved humans.

01;46;27;26 - 01;46;28;28
Jen
You're like, work there.

01;46;29;01 - 01;46;33;25
Evan
I know that's how I know it.

01;46;33;28 - 01;46;35;20
Jesse
Anyway, yeah, we get.

01;46;35;20 - 01;46;47;03
Evan
Paid $18 an hour. Let's unionize. Oh, my word. You. You're in college, so you're like, go get another job when you're done. Like, who cares?

01;46;47;05 - 01;46;48;12
Jesse
Yeah.

01;46;48;15 - 01;46;49;25
Jen
Any last? Lots of it.

01;46;49;28 - 01;46;50;22
Jesse


01;46;50;25 - 01;46;53;09
Jen
All right. And that's it. Merry Christmas.

01;46;53;11 - 01;46;55;13
Jesse
Bye.

01;46;56;11 - 01;46;56;21
Jesse
What's your.

01;46;56;21 - 01;46;58;13
Evan
Favorite Christmas movie?

01;46;58;16 - 01;46;59;21
Jesse
Oh, gosh.

01;47;00;22 - 01;47;03;24
Jesse
Don't say it. Well, what do you know?

01;47;04;00 - 01;47;05;07
Evan
I'm gonna say vacation.

01;47;05;09 - 01;47;06;14
Jesse
She hates, I hate.

01;47;06;15 - 01;47;07;09
Jen
It's a Wonderful Life.

01;47;07;09 - 01;47;09;14
Jesse
I only ask off your high horse. It's because.

01;47;09;14 - 01;47;09;21
Evan
You're an.

01;47;09;21 - 01;47;10;14
Jesse
Idiot now.

01;47;10;19 - 01;47;11;19
Jen
Because it's not a good movie.

01;47;11;19 - 01;47;14;20
Jesse
No, just because you're trying to regurgitating people's opinions.

01;47;14;26 - 01;47;15;22
Jen
Oh, I don't I.

01;47;15;25 - 01;47;15;29
Jesse
A.

01;47;15;29 - 01;47;16;24
Evan
Contrary, she's being a.

01;47;16;24 - 01;47;18;06
Jesse
Contrarian. She doesn't even watch this.

01;47;18;10 - 01;47;19;21
Jen
I don't do that, though.

01;47;19;23 - 01;47;20;13
Jesse
She,

01;47;20;15 - 01;47;27;06
Evan
She was a girl in high school. Like, if you like blink 182 and much more serious. I'm much more of the offspring.

01;47;27;08 - 01;47;29;24
Jesse
Definitely no.

01;47;29;26 - 01;47;31;05
Jen
I'm not stubborn.

01;47;31;07 - 01;47;33;08
Jesse
It's just. Charlotte's the future.

01;47;33;08 - 01;47;33;25
Jesse
Yeah, yeah.

01;47;34;00 - 01;47;35;27
Jen
No, I didn't like them that much. I didn't like.

01;47;35;27 - 01;47;37;10
Jesse
Them. You did like, what's the one?

01;47;37;10 - 01;47;38;17
Evan
Good. What's their famous song?

01;47;38;17 - 01;47;39;02
Jesse
Good Charlotte?

01;47;40;17 - 01;47;42;01
Jesse
Lifestyles of the Rich and.

01;47;42;02 - 01;47;42;15
Jesse
Oh, yes.

01;47;42;16 - 01;47;44;24
Jen
Yeah. It doesn't matter. Anyway,

01;47;44;26 - 01;47;47;29
Jesse
Okay. Best. My favorite Christian. Okay.

01;47;48;02 - 01;47;50;01
Jesse
I,

01;47;50;03 - 01;48;11;17
Jesse
Christmas movie, I mean, is probably Muppet Christmas Carol up there, but Christmas carols as a whole like the story. And there's been like the higher point parts. I can't speak the higher, movies that we watch is usually around the Christmas carols. We watched Scrooge. We just talked about this.

01;48;11;17 - 01;48;12;05
Evan
Scrooge.

01;48;12;06 - 01;48;12;29
Jesse
The no.

01;48;12;29 - 01;48;13;19
Evan
Bill Murray, one.

01;48;13;19 - 01;48;16;15
Jesse
Rouge, the, Oh, my gosh.

01;48;17;28 - 01;48;20;14
Jen
I we were I was just talking to you about this, and I can't.

01;48;20;14 - 01;48;45;04
Jesse
I can never, Albert Finney. Oh, it it is a musical verse. Yeah, but it's very catchy musical. And the acting's pretty decent, and the, the set design is fantastic. So that's just my idea. You favorite Christmas movie? Do you have, like, one that it's like we're holding off until, like, Christmas Day to watch this because then it feels more like,

01;48;45;06 - 01;48;47;10
Jesse
Yeah, we usually watch, which.

01;48;47;13 - 01;49;04;19
Evan
Try to watch The Muppet Christmas Carol Christmas Eve. It's on my feet, I love it. It's not my favorite though. Yeah, I love, Die Hard. I love, I do love the Home Alone movies. Like the second one. It feels so outrageously funny.

01;49;04;22 - 01;49;13;12
Jesse
That's one of the few that it's like the second. Better than that. Yeah. First. Yeah. Like movies out there. We just watched Yesterday Island. I watched, Violent Night.

01;49;13;14 - 01;49;16;08
Evan
Oh, the one that came out last year. Yeah. Was it good.

01;49;16;09 - 01;49;26;08
Jesse
Or two years ago? I mean, no, but but it's good for the genre. I'll give it like it's, you know, it's what you expect. Yeah. Just a lot of violent.

01;49;26;08 - 01;49;31;24
Evan
Oh, you know, people. Same vein. Santa killing people. It's the Mel Gibson.

01;49;31;24 - 01;49;33;07
Jesse
One I was about to ask. That one was, have.

01;49;33;07 - 01;49;37;26
Jesse
You seen it? That's so it got so bad ratings. But I really want to watch that was out there.

01;49;37;28 - 01;49;39;03
Jesse
Yeah, yeah.

01;49;39;05 - 01;49;41;26
Jesse
So that's nice. But what's your favorite X-Men list?

01;49;42;18 - 01;49;44;17
Evan
Well, I would say I wonder It's a Wonderful Life.

01;49;45;07 - 01;49;45;16
Jesse
Because.

01;49;45;16 - 01;49;46;23
Evan
It's like the greatest.

01;49;46;25 - 01;49;47;07
Jesse
It's so.

01;49;47;07 - 01;49;48;14
Evan
Good. It's, It's a great.

01;49;48;19 - 01;49;49;14
Jesse
Movie. You.

01;49;49;14 - 01;49;49;24
Jen
It's not.

01;49;49;25 - 01;49;52;08
Jesse
It's one of the few that actually makes me choke up at points.

01;49;52;12 - 01;49;53;22
Jen
It's fine. No.

01;49;53;24 - 01;49;55;14
Jesse
No, you just don't watch it. You've never.

01;49;55;14 - 01;49;57;21
Jen
Watched. I have watched it multiple times.

01;49;57;22 - 01;49;58;20
Evan
I love that movie.

01;49;58;23 - 01;50;00;24
Jesse
You're. You're wrong. I'm not wrong. You're wrong.

01;50;00;25 - 01;50;03;12
Evan
Jimmy Stewart, American treasure.

01;50;03;19 - 01;50;04;08
Jesse
No.

01;50;04;11 - 01;50;06;09
Jen
Great.

01;50;06;11 - 01;50;08;04
Jesse
You're the wrong room for this.

01;50;08;06 - 01;50;10;01
Jen
I know I'm always the wrong in the wrong name.

01;50;10;01 - 01;50;11;09
Evan
A bad Jimmy Stewart movie.

01;50;11;11 - 01;50;13;04
Jen
I don't really even. I'm not good at talking.

01;50;13;04 - 01;50;14;29
Jesse
Shop around. It's wonderful life. Yeah.

01;50;15;05 - 01;50;16;11
Jen
Yeah, it is wonderful.

01;50;16;24 - 01;50;18;06
Evan
Vertigo.

01;50;18;08 - 01;50;23;07
Jen
I have not seen neither. Listen, it's not Jimmy Stewart. It's the movie.

01;50;23;09 - 01;50;24;23
Jesse
The movie is good.

01;50;24;25 - 01;50;30;12
Jen
The movie never had it. It bombed in movie theaters because it's not beating me.

01;50;30;14 - 01;50;30;28
Jesse
Really?

01;50;31;03 - 01;50;32;05
Evan
You know, locations of.

01;50;32;05 - 01;50;33;12
Jesse
Facts that people like.

01;50;33;25 - 01;50;35;23
Evan
Nope. It's dumb and Dumber bombed, I think.

01;50;35;29 - 01;50;37;28
Jen
Well, it's because it's not actually great.

01;50;38;01 - 01;50;41;03
Evan
But it's all the movies. Bring it all.

01;50;41;05 - 01;50;52;12
Jen
Anyway. You didn't get your, well, my go to is always like the what's the claymation one with, Rudolph and the Yeti, right?

01;50;52;15 - 01;50;52;21
Jesse
Is it.

01;50;52;21 - 01;50;54;16
Jen
Just Rudolph? Yes, I've had it, and I.

01;50;54;16 - 01;50;55;17
Jesse
Love it. What's that?

01;50;55;19 - 01;50;59;05
Jen
And I always have to watch elf, but that's, like, not as nostalgic.

01;50;59;06 - 01;50;59;13
Jesse
I don't.

01;50;59;13 - 01;51;11;22
Evan
Love that. Like, that's one of the movies where I'm just like, no, I'm not a huge Will Ferrell fan. I've never been. I get it like the dumb, like just the dumb character thing that he always does.

01;51;11;24 - 01;51;13;29
Jen
Like dumb and Dumber is so funny.

01;51;14;01 - 01;51;17;15
Jesse
Yeah. I mean, because it's not hard, you know.

01;51;17;19 - 01;51;19;05
Evan
Because it's not it's.

01;51;19;05 - 01;51;19;16
Jesse
Not Will.

01;51;19;22 - 01;51;20;03
Evan
It's not.

01;51;20;03 - 01;51;20;24
Jesse
Work.

01;51;20;26 - 01;51;23;04
Evan
Will Ferrell drives me nuts.

01;51;23;04 - 01;51;23;18
Jesse
I love him.

01;51;23;25 - 01;51;25;11
Jen
All right, get us out of here.

01;51;25;13 - 01;51;26;05
Jesse
Why are you in a hurry?

01;51;26;05 - 01;51;28;04
Jen
Because we kind of record another one. Oh.

01;51;28;06 - 01;51;29;06
Jesse
Right. Today.

01;51;29;09 - 01;51;36;04
Jesse
Okay, well, that's that, I guess this is a short episode, right? We're not even an hour in.

01;51;36;07 - 01;51;38;09
Jesse
Hey, what's your favorite Christmas cookie?

01;51;38;12 - 01;51;39;29
Jen
No Christmas cookie.

01;51;40;06 - 01;51;41;07
Jesse
That's just.

01;51;41;10 - 01;51;41;25
Jesse
A bizarre.

01;51;41;26 - 01;51;50;00
Jen
Well, I like the ones that I make. The peanut butter cracker ones. With the chocolate, you take two Ritz crackers and you make a peanut butter sandwich. Oh, yeah. And then you dunk them.

01;51;50;04 - 01;51;50;20
Evan
Chocolate.

01;51;50;20 - 01;51;53;16
Jen
And it's delicious. Especially if you put them in the freezer.

01;51;53;17 - 01;51;55;06
Jesse
Yeah, I love Christmas cookies.

01;51;55;06 - 01;51;59;18
Evan
I love no bakes, but no bakes are a year round thing. But I could eat. No.

01;51;59;18 - 01;52;04;20
Jen
But yeah. Like what's specific to a Christmas cookie because I think of those is that I only made the Mac.

01;52;04;23 - 01;52;06;12
Evan
Yeah. I only make like Christmas.

01;52;06;14 - 01;52;07;26
Jesse
Cookie I.

01;52;07;26 - 01;52;10;21
Jesse
Don't yeah. Chocolate. You know, I.

01;52;10;21 - 01;52;12;13
Jen
Like the ones with the kiss thing in the middle.

01;52;12;15 - 01;52;13;11
Jesse
Yeah, those are bad.

01;52;13;11 - 01;52;14;14
Evan
The the peanut butter cookies.

01;52;14;15 - 01;52;15;20
Jesse
What's conservative?

01;52;16;06 - 01;52;17;01
Jesse
Is there a name?

01;52;17;03 - 01;52;24;06
Jen
Vlasic. They're called peanut butter blossoms. Okay, because it makes it look like a flower when you push the chocolate. I could be wrong.

01;52;24;11 - 01;52;24;19
Jesse
Okay?

01;52;24;26 - 01;52;28;07
Evan
I feel like it looks like a butthole pooping. That's what it kind of looks like.

01;52;28;10 - 01;52;33;05
Jesse
Like a flower, right? Yeah, it's a. Yeah. Move a flowering.

01;52;33;07 - 01;52;35;22
Evan
Yeah, it's a prairie dog. Who's calling prairie dogs. Yeah.

01;52;35;29 - 01;52;38;06
Jesse
Peanut butter.

01;52;38;08 - 01;52;40;14
Jesse
I like that title better.

01;52;40;16 - 01;52;49;14
Jen
I did see somebody do that with those. And they let the chocolate get, like, soften, and then they put another Hershey kiss on top. So there is.

01;52;49;14 - 01;52;50;16
Jesse
Too. Oh.

01;52;50;16 - 01;52;51;22
Evan
So it's like constipated.

01;52;51;24 - 01;52;53;00
Jen
Yeah. Backs up a.

01;52;53;00 - 01;52;54;09
Jesse
Little, you know.

01;52;54;13 - 01;52;58;16
Evan
Those. But with like the little tiny peanut butter cup things.

01;52;58;18 - 01;52;59;21
Jen
That you ever eat of many.

01;52;59;21 - 01;53;00;29
Evan
Really a little Reese's.

01;53;00;29 - 01;53;02;28
Jesse
That's a better way to do it.

01;53;03;21 - 01;53;05;21
Jen
Yeah. What's your favorite Christmas song?

01;53;05;24 - 01;53;06;19
Jesse


01;53;06;22 - 01;53;09;12
Jen
Since we're here wasting time, we just. No one's listening anymore.

01;53;09;15 - 01;53;13;17
Jesse
We just watched, also, the one yesterday.

01;53;14;17 - 01;53;16;08
Jen
Meet me and see me in Saint Louis.

01;53;16;09 - 01;53;17;09
Evan
Yeah.

01;53;17;12 - 01;53;18;19
Jesse
And I think I have a new.

01;53;18;19 - 01;53;19;07
Jesse
Appreciation that.

01;53;19;07 - 01;53;21;08
Evan
Also have Jimmy Stewart. I know.

01;53;21;10 - 01;53;25;14
Jen
It has. Dorothy, Judy Garland.

01;53;25;16 - 01;53;30;09
Jesse
Her version of, it's a song.

01;53;30;11 - 01;53;31;20
Jen
I haven't seen the movie.

01;53;31;20 - 01;53;31;29
Evan
It's,

01;53;32;05 - 01;53;33;20
Jen
She sings a Christmas song in it. Yeah.

01;53;33;20 - 01;53;34;14
Jesse


01;53;34;16 - 01;53;43;25
Jesse
It's Have yourself a merry Christmas. The original version of it is quite sad, but they changed the lyrics for the movie. Like, that song was written for the movie.

01;53;43;28 - 01;53;44;20
Jen
Oh, really?

01;53;44;23 - 01;53;50;09
Jesse
Yeah. And, they changed the lyrics because it was too depressing. But it really makes sense for the movie.

01;53;50;13 - 01;53;51;21
Jen
But now you're going to start singing.

01;53;51;21 - 01;53;56;28
Jesse
The older Heather doesn't want to because too is too sad, apparently. But at least. Have you heard our music?

01;53;57;00 - 01;53;57;24
Jesse


01;53;57;26 - 01;54;09;25
Jesse
But, I have a new found appreciation for that song. Having watched that for the first time. Yeah, it's not a great movie. It's fine. It's. But, like, it's, But her performance is great.

01;54;10;11 - 01;54;17;02
Evan
I love, like, the classic like Carol sings. Hark, the herald angels sing Joy to the world.

01;54;17;05 - 01;54;18;21
Jesse
It's a very orchestral like big.

01;54;18;21 - 01;54;23;13
Evan
Yeah. Like big like you sing at the end of, like, the orchestra Christmas concert.

01;54;24;00 - 01;54;24;20
Jesse
Yeah.

01;54;25;07 - 01;54;25;29
Evan
Natalie.

01;54;26;00 - 01;54;28;28
Jesse
No, no. But like that feel that like the, the like the.

01;54;29;01 - 01;54;29;16
Jesse
Yeah.

01;54;29;19 - 01;54;30;19
Jesse
The fist pumping.

01;54;30;22 - 01;54;40;13
Evan
Yeah I, I don't love like Silent Night. Punch me in the face. Oh holy night even worse worse.

01;54;40;18 - 01;54;41;09
Jesse
Oh because just.

01;54;41;10 - 01;54;42;23
Jen
Because of, like, like.

01;54;42;27 - 01;54;46;06
Jesse
How it's play now. It's so slow.

01;54;46;09 - 01;54;55;07
Evan
And then it's then it gets high and then it goes back. Oh, my. I just it's almost from a trumpet perspective is like the least favorite one to play.

01;54;55;09 - 01;54;55;22
Jesse
Yeah.

01;54;55;28 - 01;55;00;12
Evan
It's just so I hate that song Jen.

01;55;01;08 - 01;55;03;28
Jen
Oh. Come on come. Emmanuel is usually my favorite. Yeah.

01;55;04;06 - 01;55;05;18
Evan
And then there's your Catholic.

01;55;05;21 - 01;55;06;15
Jen
Soldier.

01;55;06;15 - 01;55;07;16
Evan
Foreign chants.

01;55;07;18 - 01;55;20;27
Jen
The soldier favorite is the in-sync Christmas song because my sister and I use it just like chestnuts. The Merry Christmas Happy. It's like an in-sync, specific song. Oh, and it's so so, so bad. And so great.

01;55;20;29 - 01;55;21;13
Jesse
Not good.

01;55;21;16 - 01;55;22;16
Jen
It's just nostalgic.

01;55;22;16 - 01;55;23;08
Jesse
You know, most.

01;55;23;08 - 01;55;24;29
Evan
Dave Matthews Christmas song.

01;55;25;01 - 01;55;26;12
Jesse
That Christmas song.

01;55;26;15 - 01;55;27;21
Evan
Is called Christmas Song, wasn't it?

01;55;27;23 - 01;55;28;19
Jesse
It's good, it's good song.

01;55;28;19 - 01;55;30;05
Jesse
Yeah. So the song.

01;55;30;08 - 01;55;38;28
Jen
I have about a two week threshold of Christmas music before I'm over it, I'm like, I'm like, okay, I think we're good now. I don't need to listen to it anymore.

01;55;38;28 - 01;55;39;27
Evan
Is that the.

01;55;39;29 - 01;55;42;09
Jesse
For how sleepy is that? That's like.

01;55;42;09 - 01;55;43;04
Jesse
Every song.

01;55;43;06 - 01;55;44;23
Jen
Yeah, that's just Dave Matthews.

01;55;45;13 - 01;55;47;18
Evan
Oh, no. That space between those arms.

01;55;47;20 - 01;55;52;01
Jesse
No, no space between. No. Right. I have.

01;55;52;08 - 01;55;53;19
Jen
Oh, gosh.

01;55;53;22 - 01;55;54;09
Jesse
Well, we've.

01;55;54;09 - 01;55;55;22
Jesse
Long lost everybody. I mean.

01;55;55;22 - 01;56;00;06
Jen
There's this is just for us now. Yeah. Are you guys still here? Okay.

01;56;00;19 - 01;56;03;08
Jesse
Last question. Is any other Christmas Christmas thing?

01;56;03;08 - 01;56;04;12
Jesse
You know, I don't know.

01;56;04;15 - 01;56;07;11
Evan
What was your favorite Christmas gift growing up?

01;56;07;14 - 01;56;08;23
Jesse
Oh.

01;56;08;25 - 01;56;23;12
Jen
I got none. My sister, I got a, like, three piece, two story Barbie doll house thing, and it was. That was pretty epic and probably a lot of money for my mom at the time in like 1990.

01;56;23;18 - 01;56;24;17
Jesse


01;56;24;20 - 01;56;40;07
Evan
I got a trumpet twice. Twice. And then I got a car like halfway through my Christmas year. It was my brother, my, it was like my parent, it was like 200 bucks. It was my brother's car that my parents bought.

01;56;40;07 - 01;56;42;15
Jesse
Off of them. Was there a bow on it.

01;56;42;25 - 01;56;51;24
Evan
No, I r I like I knew they bought me it because my dad was, like, working on. I was like, why? We're going in Shawn's car.

01;56;51;26 - 01;57;10;00
Jen
Oh. My mom. Also, we did not have a lot of money growing up. And we had my sister. We both had American Girl dolls, and there was one year my mom built us both like they used to sell American Girl. I have, like, a whole story in, like, furniture and all this stuff. And my mom made each of the dolls that my sister I had, like their beds.

01;57;10;02 - 01;57;12;17
Jen
And then she also made, like, different clothes and.

01;57;12;24 - 01;57;13;14
Jesse
Oh, nice.

01;57;13;16 - 01;57;16;10
Jesse
I remember getting her and yes.

01;57;16;12 - 01;57;17;16
Jen
Oh, we did you.

01;57;17;22 - 01;57;20;11
Evan
Remember getting it nice. I remember getting a cigar. Yeah.

01;57;20;12 - 01;57;26;15
Jesse
I think we got our, the, super Nintendo in a different year, but the NES sticks in my head.

01;57;26;15 - 01;57;34;20
Evan
Yeah, we never got. So we got we got NES and we got a Sega, and then we got a PlayStation. I remember getting the PlayStation.

01;57;34;20 - 01;57;40;29
Jesse
Did you have a game, Gene or the. No. Was the cheat the one that you plugged into it?

01;57;41;01 - 01;57;41;13
Jen
Into?

01;57;41;14 - 01;57;43;03
Evan
Oh, the one that like. Yes. Thank you.

01;57;43;04 - 01;57;47;19
Jesse
Yeah. But into the Game Genie. It was the Game Genie game specifically every game.

01;57;47;21 - 01;57;49;00
Evan
I know you're talking about the.

01;57;49;03 - 01;57;50;29
Jesse
Lady putting cheat codes to do things.

01;57;51;01 - 01;57;51;26
Jesse
Oh, cool.

01;57;51;28 - 01;57;53;25
Jen
I only ever had sex when I.

01;57;53;25 - 01;57;56;29
Jesse
Because every time I'm like, cheat code for that. Yeah, I was.

01;57;57;02 - 01;58;12;00
Evan
I bought a PlayStation five. And so the only game I really I play sports games because they lose. You lose your attention really quickly. But the one game, if I'm like by myself for a long period of time, I play Grand Theft Auto and I'm kicking the mess out of that thing.

01;58;12;03 - 01;58;14;02
Jen
Yeah. Isn't that the point on that?

01;58;14;02 - 01;58;19;05
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah. I need more bullets. Left left right right right right right right.

01;58;19;08 - 01;58;19;26
Evan
Circle square.

01;58;19;26 - 01;58;21;07
Jesse
Triangle triangle triangle triangle triangle.

01;58;21;10 - 01;58;24;24
Jen
I can't I can't video game. I'm not good at it.

01;58;25;00 - 01;58;28;06
Jesse
All right. Well okay merry Christmas, merry Christmas.

01;58;28;13 - 01;58;29;16
Jen
You fill me for homeless.

01;58;29;18 - 01;58;30;10
Jesse
Listening.

01;58;30;10 - 01;58;31;10
Evan
And a happy new year.

01;58;31;11 - 01;58;33;11
Jesse
We'll do better next episode.

01;58;33;14 - 01;58;34;22
Jen
I think we got it was good.

01;58;34;22 - 01;58;38;05
Jesse
We were no. But most of our banter today has been just everywhere.

01;58;38;08 - 01;58;40;09
Jen
Listen, we haven't been, We've been.

01;58;40;09 - 01;58;40;18
Jesse
Busy.

01;58;40;22 - 01;58;41;23
Evan
Get down on your knees.

01;58;41;23 - 01;58;48;20
Jesse
I say we're going to be better, but, we're about to record this next one, and it's the same brains right now. There's a stew in the next episode.

01;58;48;22 - 01;58;51;06
Jen
You guys are at least a beer in now.

01;58;51;09 - 01;58;56;06
Jesse
Elena. I'm too. Well, all right, all right, all right. Here.

01;58;56;06 - 01;58;57;20
Jesse
Christmas. Oh.

01;58;57;22 - 01;58;58;08
Jen
Here we go.

01;58;58;08 - 01;59;00;28
Jesse
Here. We'll see you on the other side. Questions.

01;59;00;28 - 01;59;01;23
Jen
Stuff, 20.

01;59;01;23 - 01;59;02;07
Jesse
25.

01;59;02;14 - 01;59;04;23
Jen
Question things. And we didn't say.

01;59;04;23 - 01;59;06;29
Jesse
That that was a great out. All right.

01;59;06;29 - 01;59;08;10
Jesse
Oh, great.

01;59;08;12 - 01;59;15;16
Jesse
Question. Your pastor, your church, your faith, your work. Jesus being 100% fully.

01;59;15;18 - 01;59;17;11
Jesse
Fully. Yeah.

01;59;17;27 - 01;59;23;19
Jesse
Keep asking questions anyway. I'm Jesse 11. I'm Jim. Happy 2024. We'll see you on the flip side.

01;59;23;19 - 01;59;27;15
Jen
Bye bye. Hey.

01;59;27;18 - 01;59;40;02
Evan
Oh, thanks for listening and joining us on this week's show. If you'd like to support podcasts or just want to buy us a drink as an episode sponsor, check out our website at Christian F podcast.com.

01;59;40;06 - 01;59;49;28
Jesse
While you're on the site, feel free to send us a message. We appreciate hearing from each one of you. Our hope with this podcast is to develop a community where you can openly question your faith, church beliefs and more.

01;59;50;00 - 02;00;06;13
Jen
Also, don't forget to find and follow us on social media at Christian AV podcast. Share episodes with your friends to help grow our community. We're always looking for question stories or podcast ideas. You can send these to us via email at Christian AV podcast at gmail.com or through our social media channels. So until next time.

02;00;06;13 - 02;00;07;19
Evan
Stay curious.

02;00;07;20 - 02;00;08;18
Jesse
Stay connected.

02;00;08;18 - 02;00;15;23
Jen
And keep questioning.

02;00;15;26 - 02;00;15;29

Hey!